crack_van | Hyperion to a Satyr by Sebastian (NC-17)

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Hyperion to a Satyr by Sebastian (NC-17)

Fandom: THE PROFESSIONALS
Pairing: Bodie/Doyle
Author on LJ: no
Author Website: http://www.zeropanic.net/
Why this must be read:

I'm Justacat, your reccer for November. Sorry I've been a little late starting - I've been finishing up a major overhaul of the The Circuit Archive, the Pros fanfic - and now fan art! - archive, and I haven't been able to spare energy for anything else. That's done now (insofar as any archive can be "done," that is :-), so I have time to think about other things - still Pros things, of course!

Any list of the best writers in Pros includes Sebastian, and a number of her stories have been rec'ed already. I like her because while she always gives us glimpses of the tenderness and affection and deep attachment between the guys, and also their individual vulnerability, she also keeps them indisputably guys - tough and hard and not so good at communicating. Often her stories, especially the later stories, have some degree of angst and darkness, which I find appropriate to this fandom, and a melancholic-but-yet-uplifting feel to them (she's also written some that are far from uplifting, but being a happy-ending sort of person myself, those tend not to be my favorites). She also does good smut, by which I mean that it's in character, not cookie-cutter, and gives the reader insight into the characters and their relationship.

Hyperion to a Satyr is probably my favorite of all Sebastian's stories. It's a gentle story, written in Sebastian's typical almost lyrical style. It has passion and heat, longing and despair, affection and tenderness and an unbelievably lovely resolution, the kind that leaves you smiling through tears. It's entirely in character; the relationship between the two feels genuine and so amazingly and beautifully intimate, and the story gives insight into Bodie's psyche, in particular, that I find realistic and believable. It's a moving and deeply, deeply satisfying story - a classic in the fandom.

Hyperion to a Satyr (originally published in The Hatstand Express Fiction Supplement 3)

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I'm married! I am! Totally! I'm completely wedded to Due South!

Does it sound like I'm protesting too much? And what's prompted this outburst? You and your shameless Pros-pimping, you hussy! Okay, okay, so I'm married, but I'm not blind, right? And it doesn't hurt to look ...

You see, I hang on every word you say (even if I don't always comment because I don't want to seem too creepy-stalkerish) so consequently I read your Pros crack_van rec and thought, "One little story ... it can't hurt ... Justacat would never steer you wrong ..." and then I closed my eyes and clicked on the link.

The POV switching irritated the heck out of me. And I had to really wrack my brain for what I remembered of the tv show, which my brain did not appreciate. And really, I groaned at Bodie being that obtuse but then I figured I could go with it - I mean back then we weren't all into soul-searching and trying to work out the meaning of every little twinge of emotion we all felt. And the POV switching continued to irritate me. And then I was at the end and felt terribly sad it was all over. So I read it again.

*m slinks back to her One True Love, wiping her greedy little mouth*

PS. I think this was meant to be a 'thank you'.

Okay, okay, so I'm married, but I'm not blind, right? And it doesn't hurt to look ...

LOL! No, it never hurts to look ... You know, I was happily wedded to DS for a long time, and I still adore it - but though it might be sacrilege to admit it, the intensity of my obsession with Pros is greater than it was with DS, and has lasted longer .... I didn't think that was possible, truly, because I was really obsessed with DS. But you never know what might happen ...

Anyway, your comment inspired a few thoughts, and I really want to respond. When I started reading in Pros (I saw the show and really like it before I started reading), I was inevitably disappointed. I kept looking for the Speranza or Resonant of Pros, looking for that more modern writing style, that innovativeness. A fellow Pros/DS fan -

zebra363, who is also Australian (Western Australia, maybe?) - with whom I was corresponding told me to give up, I wasn't going to find it.

This depressed me - but she was right. The thing is, the writing style in Pros is just different from what I was used to in DS, and even the best of TS. It's a little more old-school fanfic - which makes sense, since so much of it is older. There's a lot more really long, novel-length fic; a lot fewer of the shorter kind of cutting-edge pieces. I've never been able to articulate the differences satisfactorily, but I think you have some sense of what I mean.

One thing I can articulate clearly, though, is that much Pros fanfic predates the current obsession in fandom with tight limited 3rd person POV. I've had this conversation many times - these days fans really expect their fanfic to be written this way - and often assume any that isn't is wrong. I was this way myself - I remember reading a DS piece by M.Fae Glasgow and bitching to

bluster about the switching POVs and how sloppy that was (I now know that M.Fae was anything but sloppy - she's a very technically good writer). Then I had a long conversation with

lanning, which inspired me to do some research about POVs (I still have an LJ post half-drafted on that topic). Actually, "switching" POVs is perfectly valid - ominiscient POV or multiple 3rd person POVs are not incorrect. They're hard to do well, but not wrong per se (which doesn't mean they don't annoy you, of course!)

But anyway, the point is that I realized that I had to stop comparing Pros with DS - and as time passed I grew to appreciate the really good stuff in Pros for its own sake (admittedly, it became easier for me to do this as I became more invested in Pros). It's a different standard, a different style - and lots of it, of course, was written in a different time (which was one of the reasons I put the original publication info in the search results on the archive)

I still think DS has some of the best writing out there. I'd love to see more newer-school fanfic writers get into Pros, see what they could do with it (and there are a few good ones - I'll be reccing them later *g*). But once I let go of my feeling that fic wasn't good unless it was comparable to DS fic, I discovered that there's lots of really truly wonderful stuff in Pros, stuff that I read and re-read multiple times, stuff that I love (there's plenty of dreck, too *g*). It just ... grows on you. And of course, that's particularly true when you come to really care about the characters.

Anyway, all this is a long way of saying that while I'm not sure that most words I say deserve hanging onto (but thank you for that! I'm incredibly flattered!) I'm really glad you gave it a chance, and I'm even more glad that you felt the need to read it again *g*. And hopefully you'll find some of the other things I rec this month somewhat appealing - I haven't gotten to my very favorites yet.

Not that I'm trying to ~~lure~~ persuade you to give Pros a try, oh no, I'd never do that. ;-) (But if you are so inclined let me know - I've sent some pimping materials to

engenda, so I know they work in Australia ........)

The thing is, the writing style in Pros is just different from what I was used to in DS

Yes, I gathered that, and you said it was an older story so I did take that into consideration as well. With this particular story I found myself rereading sentences to try and work out who was "speaking". And yes, the writing in DS does make me super-critical whenever I occasionally wander off to have a look elsewhere. In the end I did enjoy the story very much, and may even take a peek at your other recs. Even though, you know, I'm married. *g*

Even though, you know, I'm married.

Married ... but not blind, as someone once said. *g* *g*

(I'm very very thrilled and flattered that you gave it a chance just on my say-so - if you keep reading, keep me updated on your thoughts and reactions! And again, let me know if you want ~~a divorce~~ ~~an extramarrital liaison~~ to explore your options :-D

And I thank you. I've lost your address and moved so those Tim Tams were, you know, kind of eaten. Sorry.

I haven't yet watched all the eps, but every now and then I put the discs on and have a watch, and it's so apparent. There's also something, I think extremely vulnerable about Ray Doyle (what is with vulnerability and the name Ray?) that is not so apparent with Bodie. Doyle's right out there. While, my dS love will always exceed any regard for Pros, I can totally see why it's much beloved. And thanks to your recs, I'm reading the fic now. It's so fascinating to read much older fic. Wow.

Oh, and I think I scared the lunch room at work the other day when I was talking to a work mate and we were discussing a series on the ABC (that's the Government run channel), Murder Room (?), it's new, and she was all that's the guy from Pros and I was all fangirl Squeeeeee! It's Doyle! It's Doyle.

I was very, excited and happy.

I definitely see what you mean about Doyle - and I agree with you. There are some people I've spoken with who just don't see that side of him, who struggle to understand what Bodie could possibly want with such a sarky, self-centered little bastard, but I must admit I've never felt that way, he's never struck me that way. I always loved him, from the beginning (though Bodie's grown on me too - now I'd be hard pressed to choose a favorite).

And I'm very glad you're enjoying reading the fic and dabbling in Pros! It is a different sort of fic, as I said to mergatrude in the comment up above (lots of Aussies in this thread! *g*), but I've come to love a lot of it (definitely not all, of course).

While, my dS love will always exceed any regard for Pros...

You say that now .... Heh. I'd have said the same thing a year ago, in no uncertain terms, and believed it wholeheartedly - but I was wrong, and boy how (though I do still love dS, no doubt about that). Fandom is a funny thing; never ceases to surprise me. Who knows what'll be next (though if you asked me now I'd say my Pros love will always exceed all my other fannish loves .... :-D)

And fangirl squee - always a good thing!!

Catching up on this community...thanks for this rec. Sebastian is my favourite Pros author, but this story isn't one that springs mind when I think of her. I enjoyed revisiting it.

I don't like the beginning of the story, as it contains one of my all-time squicks: the too-early "I love you". However, I generally trust your taste, so I pushed on and found the rest of the story much more believable. Bodie's realisations about his feelings for Doyle after Doyle became involved with Ann rang true, and were written with that beautiful intensity that Sebastian does so well. (In fact, I can only think of one or two DS-era authors who I think do that as well as she does - the one who springs to mind is Killa in Highlander.)

I got a giggle out of your comment to

mergatrude about how you never expected to be more obsessed with anything than DS, but found yourself even more involved with Pros. I consider myself a "serial obsessor" these days. I'm actually without a current full-time obsession right now (after an intense but brief fling with Sports Night), so I might go back to doing some watching and reading in Pros.

I'll have to read the story again to understand the POV issues. Not being a writer, I'm not very aware of those sorts of technicalities. I'd be interested in a post on that topic.

The too-early "I love you" isn't one of my big squicks, but I'm not a big fan of it, either. Part I of Hyperion was nice enough, I suppose, but it's definitely not what got to me. I started being reeled in during the scene on stakeout in the parking garage, in the car, but it was the final parts that did it for me. Like you say, Bodie's "enlightenment" had a very believable and poignant feel to it, unlike some stories with similar types of "oh my god I love him!" epiphanies, and yes, that beautiful, almost haunting Sebastian intensity.... it just makes me ache.

And I loved the way Ray reacted, and the scene in the bathroom, and Bodie's desperation, his feeling that now it's too late (the reverse of this, with Doyle having his realization and fearing it's too late, characterizes another of my very favorite of Sebastian's stories - it's called Perfect Day and it's in Unprofessional Conduct 1, but it's not online, unfortunately, because none of the material from the Unpro Conducts is online. Have you read it?). And I just love the last lines of the story ... she has an inimitable way with emotion; soft but never sappy, if that makes sense.

As for the POV issues - they never bothered me in this story. I'm not a writer either, but I made some effort to understand because a) I'm always interested in technical details, and b) I began to suspect that not everyone who doesn't adhere to tight third person limited could be wrong. I may in fact do that post one of these days - but I have a few posts waiting in the wings; the important one on Why I Love Smut in My Slash (!), as well as a number of fic reviews .... so much fannish stuff to do!!

Finally, serial obsession - ah, yes. The only thing is, I'm not sure I could survive an obsession more intense than mine with Pros - what more could I possibly do??? *g* And right now, in the flush of this obsession, of course I don't want to imagine it ever ending ...

I'd be thrilled if you decided to venture back into Pros. As I said to

mergatrude, it was chatting with you that gave me some perspective on the whole DS/Pros issue and enabled me, eventually, to appreciate Pros for what it is - and also you were the first person I ever met (and still one of the very few, except the people I'm trying to convert!) who really shared both obsessions. I'd love to talk more with you about it.

I put this comment in the wrong spot...moving it...

The too-early "I love you" isn't one of my big squicks, but I'm not a big fan of it, either.

It goes against the "guyness" that I, like you, generally want to see in slash. In fact, I'm not sure that ANYONE says "I love you" after a few weeks of knowing each other and one sexual encounter. Unfortunately, a lot of my squicks show up all the time in Pros fic.

Perfect Day and it's in Unprofessional Conduct 1, but it's not online, unfortunately, because none of the material from the Unpro Conducts is online. Have you read it?).

No. I've only seen a very few non-online Pros zines. Is it still available? I might consider buying a zine that came very highly recommended, but even then I'm not sure - I don't really want to support the zine industry! I'm much more enthusiastic about online fiction.

But having said that - are there many non-online Sebastian stories??

what more could I possibly do???

Write fic, maybe??? (You're probably the most literate non-writer around!)

Most of my local slash group who are 30+ are Pros fans, but none are very active in the fandom now. They've mostly moved on to HP or anime or RPS (or RL!). It's probably more common for Australian and UK slashers than Americans to be Pros fans, since many of us saw the show in its initial run.

In fact, I'm not sure that ANYONE says "I love you" after a few weeks of knowing each other and one sexual encounter.

Heh. I've personally known guys who have. It's funny, guys can be so much more sappy than women. Yet it's harder for me to imagine guys being like that with each other. My problem with the too-early "I love you" is less about the "guyness" (though as you know, that's a big deal for me) and more about the lack of realism - not that fanfic is realistic, but still, I need to be able to suspend disbelief.

I can see how guy-type squicks would show up often in Pros, though luckily there is fic that steers clear of them. And let me tell you, if you want to see all your guyness squicks in one place, try some S&H fic - oh my god.

Is it still available?

All the Unprofessional Conduct zines are still available. They're published by Gryphon Press, and you can contact Sara, who runs Gryphon, at Sara.peartree @ btinternet.com (she's in the UK). Gryphon Press publishes very high-quality zines, anthologies and novels, and absolutely none of them are available online (well, I suppose individual authors could choose to put their stuff online - but as far as I know the only one who has is Helen Raven).

I - obviously! - agree with you about online fic, though I do like zines - if I really like a story I'll buy it in zine format because that's how I like to read (and sometimes the art really adds to the story). But unfortunately, not everyone agrees - especially in Pros.

But having said that - are there many non-online Sebastian stories??

Not many. Most of her stories were circuit stories, all of which are online, and many of the others were in the Oblique zines, and those are also online. She has a few she co-wrote with HG (3 that I could find), and those aren't online b/c HG hasn't given permission. And there are 3 of her stories in the Gryphon Press zines (Unprof. Conduct 1, Unprof Conduct 7, and Celebrations Vol. 1), and those aren't online. As far as I know those are the only ones, though.

Write fic, maybe???

LOL!! Bite your tongue! *g* Seriously, you are so nice to say that, but it's very unlikely - I simply don't have stories in my head, don't have ideas. Plus I love doing the stuff I do, and I imagine I wouldn't have time if I were to write fic. I do beta, though ....

It's probably more common for Australian and UK slashers than Americans to be Pros fans, since many of us saw the show in its initial run.

I think that's very true. I mean, I grew up with Starsky & Hutch here; when I was a pre-adolescent, every girl had a crush on one or the other and pictures on her wall, etc. - that makes a difference. In fact, it's amazing that Pros fandom in the US has been as big as it has considering that it has never been shown here (except in one small town in Texas, oddly enough) - a testatment to the slashiness and fandom-worthiness of the show, I suppose!

It seems like lots of people who love Pros aren't active in the fandom right now, though they still love it.... it'd be nice to have a renaissance, though :)

Thanks for the info about the Unprofessional Conducts. When I run out of good online fic to read in all of my fandoms (hopefully never!), I might order them!

One of the local slashers who has quite a few Pros zines had a get-together this past weekend and I did enjoy looking through her collection. She has the zine in which one of my favourite Sebastian stories (First Night, Last Night) was originally published. I was interested to learn that it was written in response to a piece of art!

I simply don't have stories in my head, don't have ideas.

That's generally how I feel too, but sometimes I wonder if it can really be true, if I've just shut down my creative side for whatever reason. I managed just fine to think up pre-slash B/D h/c scenarios during the fifteen years between being bitten by Pros and discovering online slash. I still remember some of those scenes (mostly they were just stand-alone scenes, not complete stories - a conversation in Doyle's kitchen after "Discovered in a Graveyard", for example!), but the thought of taking pictures in my mind and turning them into words is daunting. One of these days I'm going to have to get over that, even if only for my own consumption!

Just realized I'd never responded to this ....

It's *wonderful* to have friends who have zines! I live close to

meri_oddities, who started the Circuit Archive back in 1996 - she has every single Pros zine and circuit zine ever published until about 3 years ago. It's a treasure trove for me - I borrow them by the stack, and sometimes buy ones that I particularly like.

And First Night, Last Night ... oh that one is painful, isn't it?? I'm trying to remember, but I seem to recall it's one of the ones with the ambiguous endings that leaves you hurting ... I have a hard time with that kind of story, even if I appreciate its brilliance. It's like I need my slash to have a happy ending (not necessarily utopic, just with the two of them really together) - that's the role slash serves in my life.

Or am I remembering wrong? But Sebastian is always wonderful ...

but sometimes I wonder if it can really be true, if I've just shut down my creative side for whatever reason.

I sometimes wonder that too ... Though mine was squelched long ago, when I was a good little student following instructions. I don't really even have scenes in my head, never did that I can recall. It's weird. I can't imagine I was born that way *g*

Though I did, once, write myself a piece of "fanfic"... it was an epilogue to a fantasy novel I love. The brothers-in-all-but-blood-soulmates-preslashy-guys (I love that kind of novel *g*) were apart at the end, and clearly on their way back together - but I needed the reuniting scene written, so I did it myself. I was actually an adult at the time - and it's the schmoopiest thing ever - certainly not for public consumption, though no one knows the novel anyway :-D But maybe that suggests there's something there ...

Yes, you're remembering correctly - First Night, Last Night does have an ambiguous ending. It also has some of the most emotionally intense paragraphs I've ever read. I love it, despite there being several things I don't like about it. In fact, I'm afraid to re-read it too often in case I wear off some of the shine (but I've been re-reading it for seven years now and that hasn't happened yet).

I can take or leave happy endings, as long as you give me that emotional intensity. That's what I want from slash.

Though mine was squelched long ago, when I was a good little student following instructions.

Yep, me too. Not that anyone ever tried to force me into a mold - I did that myself. There's a lot I could say about what I think the school system does ESPECIALLY to those who excel in it.

If you've written a piece of fanfic, you're ahead of me. Certainly it suggests that there's something there! Maybe we should make a pact to each write a tiny piece of slash, by, say, 2015.

Yep, me too. Not that anyone ever tried to force me into a mold - I did that myself. There's a lot I could say about what I think the school system does ESPECIALLY to those who excel in it.

Oh, I totally agree!! A friend and I used to call it "Valedictorian syndrome" - good little students who follow instructions and do everything right, but all creativity and initiative are stamped out - those aren't rewarded. I always find it ironic that people who excel in the public schools don't usually end up being the ones who "do great things" - because doing great things requires thinking outside the box, and you do well in public schools precisely by not thinking that way!

I can take or leave happy endings, as long as you give me that emotional intensity.

Oh, I envy you in some ways - emotional intensity is great, but I need happy endings. It's odd; that's such an essential aspect of slash/fandom to me, the feeling that the ambiguity and uncertainty and hopelessness of real life don't touch these people (or if it touches them, it doesn't prevail, if that makes sense). I suppose it's a balance - I don't need, or even like, wildly improbable utopic endings - but the sense that, despite all life could throw at them, these people are together and meant to be and they're going to stay that way - that's crucial for me. I can appreciate the qualities of stories that don't have it, but those are never ever my "favorite" stories.

Sometimes I wish I was hardier, though :-)

In fact, I'm afraid to re-read it too often in case I wear off some of the shine (but I've been re-reading it for seven years now and that hasn't happened yet).

LOL! I know exactly what you mean ... I have stories like that; they live in my head, but I'm afraid to take them out to often - only on special occasions. I'm very glad to hear that it hasn't happened in seven years, though - gives me hope for my own favorites.

And I'm not ignoring your comment about Doyle being uncivilized ... was basically offline all weekend and am still catching up ... I want to respond; you posed very good questions!!

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Hyperion to a Satyr by Sebastian (NC-17)

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